Food, glorious food! Everything you need to know about choosing your Caterer with Sarah Chianese

Kevin Dennis (: 00:00

All right, so welcome, Sarah, to Mind Your Wedding Business. We're excited to have you here today talking about wedding business, ugh, take two, wedding business ethics and etiquette, which is something I think we all, you know, need to brush up on from time to time. And, you know, because I would say, coming out of COVID, some people weren't doing the best of the ethics, I would say. So, so I'm interested to dive into this topic with you. So

But Sarah, but before we start, how did we get in the wedding business and how did we get here today? Like, how did we get here?

Sarah Chianese (: 00:34

Okay, well I got into the wedding business specifically. I was catering without doing weddings and then one year I'd gone to five weddings and I couldn't eat a thing. And I was like, okay, it was that bad. And I don't even understand that. I was like, how are people spending small to very large fortunes, feeding 200, 400 people and it's all getting thrown away?

Kevin Dennis (: 00:45

Mm-hmm. The food was horrible. Ha ha ha! The food was horrible?

Kevin Dennis (: 00:59

and it's all getting thrown away. Yeah. And if it is getting digested, people may not feel so great the next day. And I finally said, that's it, team, we are going to start doing weddings, of which there were a few raised eyebrows because they were like, oh, you're sure you wanna do weddings? It's such an emotional game. And I'm like, absolutely. This is the most joyous day of people's lives. So that was it. Let me start with doing weddings. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 01:01

And if it is getting digested, people may not feel so great the next day. And I finally said, that's it team. We are going to start doing weddings. Of which there were some few, a few raised eyebrows, uh, because they were like, ah, you're sure you want to do weddings? It's such an emotional game. And I'm like, absolutely. This is the most joyous day of people's lives. So that was it. Then we started doing weddings, not just events and parties.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:23

That's interesting you say that because I think stigma, you know, there's a stigma to, you know, out there it's, you know, wedding food is horrible and, you know, there's some, there is good wedding food but, you know, there is some really bad wedding food out there so good for you to bring up the change the game in the wedding industry and get us some good food out there. So yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 01:42

Absolutely. Well, two of my slogans, one is catering with integrity and the other one is we don't do wedding food.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:49

Oh, I love it. Love it. All right. So we're here to talk about ethics and etiquette. So why is proper business etiquette essential for a business?

Sarah Chianese (: 02:01

for every reason, but certainly, first of all, if you're gonna have pride and joy in what you do, you gotta be ethical, right? So that's why we say catering with integrity. Integrity behind anything I do, whether it's work or play or romance or family, whatever it may be, integrity is extremely important to me in everything. So certainly in business, why is actually the question? Why are you in business?

Kevin Dennis (: 02:03

Okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 02:10

you gotta be ethical, right? So that's why we say cater to.

Kevin Dennis (: 02:21

integrity is extremely important to me and everything. So certainly, this is a very important topic.

is actually the question, why are you in business? Yeah. You do what you do. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 02:31

Why do you do what you do?

Kevin Dennis (: 02:33

Usually it's because we love it. I always say in the wedding business, we're really good at our art, but really bad at the business side of things. You know? There's so many like florists, friends of mine, and just some other, you know, I can think of a couple other like photographers that they're really good at their art, very passionate about it, but they're not really good at the business side of it. So it makes people nervous when they're doing business with them, because they're not getting estimates, they're not getting the customer service and everything that they want.

in the timely manner. So, yeah. I love that you mentioned the art by the way. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 03:06

I love that you mentioned art, by the way, because it is a craft. Every wedding professional in the industry has a craft that they specialize in, whether it's music, DJ, entertainment, catering, decor. Even planning is an art, because it's the logistical kings and queens of the world who are saying, I'm going to make your visions come true. That's an art. So having the business side of it, if it's not you, get somebody to help you.

Kevin Dennis (: 03:13

Mm-hmm. And then they specialize in whether it's music, entertainment, catering, the core.

It's the logistical kings and queens of the world who are saying, I'm going to make your visions come true. That's hard. It really is. Having the business.

Kevin Dennis (: 03:34

Yeah, that's a good thing to say because that's one of the things that I think it's important. You got to make yourself stand out and be different. And one of the things I did in my business was I was like, we're going to be really good at the customer service side. We are going to, you know, we are going to excel and get back to people as fast as we can, you know, because so many people, I think a lot of people lose business because they're not timely with, you know, responses, phone calls, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, I mean, you know, that's.

It's all there. So anyway, so and I know yeah

Sarah Chianese (: 04:06

And now more than, sorry, now more than ever, what you just said about the getting back to people, like you don't even have a minute, you have to get on it right away.

Kevin Dennis (: 04:14

I know and there's so many platforms and you know it's we got to meet them where they are sometimes they're coming in on Instagram and you know I prefer you know I'm old I like a good phone call you know I feel like we could get more done but the girls in my office like to DM and they like to you know yep exactly they're better at it give me five minutes with someone and I can make everything either better or I'll sell them whatever we need to sell them because it's just it's easier to have that conversation with people so all right.

So back to ethics, because we're here. What do you think, coming out of COVID, what do you think? Has it changed? Has ethics changed in the wedding industry? What do you think?

Sarah Chianese (: 04:58

Ethics should never change.

Kevin Dennis (: 05:00

I agree with you, but unfortunately I think they have. You know? Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 05:03

Yes, they have. They have. The most drastic change relates to what you were just talking about, about people responding or getting back to people. I see such a diminishment in work ethic in general after COVID, during and after, one in their response time. I mean, there are people who call me and say, I've called 15 people and we found you and you got back to us within seconds.

Like we just finished typing the thing and you're already responding to us. And I'm like, I'm a little old school in that regard. If someone's asking you for something, you should answer them right away. So I would say the response time has gone downhill horribly. And I would also say that there's a very strange sense of entitlement that's happening amongst some of the wedding professionals, if you wanna call them professionals. Cause actually I kinda wanted to say,

Kevin Dennis (: 05:33

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 05:55

Okay.

Sarah Chianese (: 06:02

people as opposed to wedding professionals. The wedding professionals will have a high standard that they're gonna keep delivering to their beautiful clients. So I would say that the entitlement, what I mean by that is the concept of, what do you want? What do you need? Come on, hurry up, let's get to it. That sort of a thing. And that I have found happened far more dramatically after COVID.

Kevin Dennis (: 06:03

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 06:13

So I would say that the entitlement I mean by that is the concept of what do you want, what do you need? Come on, hurry up, let's get to it. That sort of thing. And that, I am now...

Kevin Dennis (: 06:32

So the hospitality side of it is missing, you know, it was something that we should be known for something that we, you know, have worked hard at, you know, that Ritz-Carlton level of service is just out the window right now. So, and I'd agree with you. The other thing I mean, I would add to for coming out of COVID, it's just there's so many in California, you I know you're different, every parts of the country was effectively different. But so many people left the industry.

Sarah Chianese (: 06:46

It's...

Kevin Dennis (: 07:00

So that means when everything came back, there was a void in people. Then there was an influx of new people coming into our industry. And it's just, it's a bag of tricks. Like they are, people are promising things that they can't deliver, you know, which is not very ethical, uh, you know, and it's just, it's, it's all over, you know, it's that kind of weird influx. And I think it's going to take us a couple more years until we level it, you know, level out and get back to way things were, I always say.

ways refer everything back to: 2019

Sarah Chianese (: 07:34

Yeah. And staffing issues.

Kevin Dennis (: 07:38

Oh, it's huge. And there's no loyalty with the staff either anymore, you know. Oh, that's good.

Sarah Chianese (: 07:43

There is with mine, but that's because of the way we treat them, and that has to do with our ethics and our etiquette regarding our team. But yes, it's, okay. Best investment you can do in your company, or you can put into your company has to do with who's in your company. And if that means after a long four day, 14 hour day stint, taking everybody to the spa,

Kevin Dennis (: 07:50

Well, tell me about that then.

Kevin Dennis (: 07:56

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 08:01

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 08:10

The finances that you spend on that is nothing compared to the big shiny piece of equipment you want to get or something else that you want to do. Your team is your company. So investing in your team, respecting them, paying them properly or better than properly, merit-based of course, not just, you know, you don't want anybody entitled. So that's it.

Kevin Dennis (: 08:18

investing in something else that comes through your team is your company. So investing in your team, respecting them, paying them properly or better than properly, merit based of course. Just know that you're not the best at it. No.

Those are all good ideas. I love it. I mean, one of the things we started doing is I started asking them what would make them feel more comfortable at work. And just finding little things like that, leaving them little snacks. We have a refrigerator just for them that we keep stocked with all their favorite drinks, not my favorite drinks. Like I constantly ask them, I keep ice cream in there for them, which is something that they, I didn't know was a big thing, but it...

Sarah Chianese (: 08:56

Hehehe

Sarah Chianese (: 08:59

Mmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 09:03

It is a big thing. I was like, oh, they would like that. So anyway, it's the little things, I think, that go a long way with taking care of the staff. So good for you. All right.

Sarah Chianese (: 09:08

Yes.

Sarah Chianese (: 09:16

And true appreciation, just looking somebody in the eye and really saying thank you.

Kevin Dennis (: 09:20

I know. Yeah, there's times where I was like, I, we would get stressed, you know, it was a raw, you know, I always call it we got beat up, you know, I always sometimes I compare I'm bad with this, but I always say like, sometimes that we're going to war, you know, like, you know, and we're out there. And you want to bring the people that you know, you work well with to the battle with you, you know what I'm saying? So when we have the rough ones, I always make sure we have some of you know, my best staff is with me and we're getting through but

Sarah Chianese (: 09:35

Ready?

Sarah Chianese (: 09:40

Oh yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 09:47

You know, if we get done a little early, I make sure, hey, we got done an hour before we're supposed to. Guys, just clock out. I'll make sure you guys get paid for the full shift. Everyone go home. It was a, we really appreciate the hard work that you guys did today. And they love that. That goes a long way. So anyway, yeah. So I noticed you're a member of WIPA.

Sarah Chianese (: 10:03

Yeah. I agree.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:10

And so WIPA is built on ethics, as I was past president twice of that association and worked very hard on the ethics for the ed association. So is that what attracted you to an association like WIPA? Or what was your attraction to something with high standards like that? Oh, right there. Go to that. Stop.

Sarah Chianese (: 10:31

This is not mirrored. I should mirror it so it could be seen. But the WIPA code of ethics is exactly what everyone should follow. Yes, it attracted me greatly. It matters a lot. The professionalism that's demanded of WIPA members is huge, and also the concept that people need to be kind to one another. And it doesn't feel like a high school clique.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:33

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:42

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 10:58

Wherever you go, I mean, you know that feeling in the wedding industry where different regions, because I work in different parts of the country, right? So in certain regions where there is no WIPA representation, which I'm dying for it to come about, good.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:06

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:12

Oh, they're growing beg, so you'll be shocked. It should be there soon. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 11:15

I'm really hoping so. There's sections of New York that I would love to see it in, particularly in the Hudson Valley. There are no professional organizations up there, and I really wish that there was a WIPA. More than any of the other ones, I wish there was a WIPA in the Hudson Valley, because Hudson Valley is a huge mecca for weddings.

I mean, it grew almost by mistake. People were like, ooh, farmland, barns, let's go. And so everybody started opening up venues, and people were like, oh, I planned my Sweet 16 party. I guess I could do weddings. And it kind of grew into that. And I'm not to put down the Hudson Valley vendors at all. I'm just saying that it would be great if there was a whippet there because of the standard and the code of ethics. So.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:37

Mm-hmm Yeah

Kevin Dennis (: 11:46

that it would be great if there was a webinar because of the standard of the code of ethics. Yeah.

And I worked, you know, the board, it wasn't just me, it was a whole team of people that worked really hard. You know, it was the founding members put it together and then we kind of tweaked them over the years. But, you know, we've actually turned down people because they refused to sign the code of ethics. So yeah, as someone, yeah, I went, like I said, I was president twice, but in my first term and in my second term as president, I had to turn at least three people down

because they refused to sign the code of ethics. And it usually was around same-sex marriages, I'll be honest with you. So yeah, no, and it's just like, I'm sorry, you can't be a member. And they're like, well, we agree to everything but that. And I'm like, I'm sorry. We're not the association for you. So yeah, it goes a long way. So all right, so in terms of etiquette, what do you think is okay and not okay? Good examples, bad examples in your wedding business.

Sarah Chianese (: 12:28

Ugh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Sarah Chianese (: 12:32

Right.

Sarah Chianese (: 12:36

Right.

Absolutely.

Sarah Chianese (: 12:48

Mmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 12:52

Okay, well, firstly, one good example is leading by example and not preaching, but we're about to preach here, right, because we're going to talk about what not to do. Don't act like middle school students or high school students in clicks. Really just never talk badly about a colleague or a client to anyone.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:00

Okay.

Sarah Chianese (: 13:14

If you want to vent with one of your very trusted friends in the industry and you want to talk about a situation without naming names, you could say, this is a scenario. Help me with this. I need to like, ah, get it out of my system. That's OK. But as soon as you start mentioning people's names, that's not cool. It's going to come back on you, and it's just not a good thing to do. So don't speak poorly of anyone, really. But you can still.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:14

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:32

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 13:39

Definitely seek guidance from a mentor or friend in the community to be able to help you like work it out and learn what not to do next time or something. I would say another don't, on the preaching scale here, is do not bait and switch with your with your customers or with your fellow vendors. Don't say I'm gonna do this and then give them something else or not be transparent in your pricing and give them a big wallop. Like I would have thought that would have been

Kevin Dennis (: 13:43

to be able to help you work it out and learn what not to do next time or something. I would say another joke from a preaching scale here is do not bait switch with your customers or with your fellow vendors. Don't say, I'm gonna do this, and then give them something else or not be transparent in your pricing and give them a big wallop. I would have thought that would have been disappeared by now, but it still goes on. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 14:07

disappeared by now, but it still goes on. Hate to say this, because I know some people make a good speaking topic on this subject, but please don't shop other vendors. If you want to call a fellow wedding professional and say, I'd like to pick your brain, I just want to be completely open with you. I need to find out some pricing from you and how you work some things. Because I

Kevin Dennis (: 14:19

Oh, okay.

Sarah Chianese (: 14:36

First of all, maybe you're in a different state, or maybe you're in the same state, but you wanna be able to be a referral basis for one another because you're different enough and you wanna get the information, be upfront about it. Don't sit there and say, hi, we're getting married sometime here, but we're not sure of the venue and wanna find out about your pricing and your packages and menus. I'm gonna invest a couple of hours of time just to find out that you're shopping me, that's not cool. And it happens all the time.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:37

Maybe you're in a different state. Maybe you're in the same state, but you want to be able to be a referral basis for the other issues you have to deal with. Mm-hmm.

and say, hi, we're getting married sometime in the year, but not so in the venue. And what if I never get paid so that the package is in the venue? I'm going to invest a couple of hours in time just to find out if you're talking about that. Yeah. No, I agree. And it happens all the time. Especially, I feel like we're recording this in November right now, and it's this time of year, because people are starting to get ready for the new year. I find that you start seeing a lot of that stuff happening. So. I feel like that. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 15:13

I see it all year round and I could spot them. So sometimes I'm like, why don't we get on a phone call right now? They don't call. So if you don't wanna call me, you don't want me to cook for you. That's how I look at it or plan for you. So gatekeeping is another thing that I'm not necessarily fond of because there's enough information, there's enough business to share.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:16

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:21

Oh, and they don't want to do that.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:31

Okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:37

There's enough information, there's enough business to share. The only exception to that is if you use a certain wedding professional on your weddings that you know can't be in two places at the same time, you say, well, if we're hired, I'm happy to give you the name of these other vendors that we're definitely going to be using if you hire us for your wedding. For example, maybe you're in a part of the country and there's only one shuttle service that you use. You don't necessarily want to give that out,

Sarah Chianese (: 15:40

The only exception to that is if you use a certain wedding professional on your weddings that you know can't be in two places at the same time, you say, well, if we're hired, I'm happy to give you the names of these other vendors that we're definitely going to be using if you hire us for your wedding.

For example, maybe you're in a part of the country and there's only one shuttle service that you use. You don't necessarily wanna give that out and farm it out to a wedding that doesn't hire you because then on the same weekend when you need them, if they're not there, you're out of a shuttle service. So that's the only exception when it comes to gatekeeping. But other than that.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:11

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 16:16

Share the information. And the more open you are, the more helpful you are, the more people like, and I don't mean this strategically, oh, I trust them now. I mean, like, they trust you because you're being honest and forthcoming. I'm going to mention this also. Again, I'm going to say some things that may not be popular. Yes, we're to save space. OK.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:26

I mean, like, they trust you. Yeah. Because you're being honest and forthcoming. I'm going to mention this also. Just we're in a safe space. No, that's a, yeah. But I think it's OK to say stuff that's not popular. But go ahead. Go, Sarah. Yeah, no. I'm not going to be able to say it. No. I'm not going to be able to say it.

Sarah Chianese (: 16:41

Yes, yeah, I don't think I'm saying anything mean to anybody. Definitely I'm not a mean person, but I would like for our industry to stop promoting the burnout. On Instagram, the stories of, I worked 14 weddings in three days, and I'm on my couch and I can't breathe because I have a cold. Like, okay, all right, so you worked really hard. Thank you for working hard. But guess what? Someone spending...

Kevin Dennis (: 16:53

Oh, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 17:07

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 17:10

Let's say it's a hundred thousand dollar wedding that they're giving you to do all of this amazing work that you are definitely working very hard at for a long time. Somebody had to work really hard to give you that money. So the last thing you want to do is be like, oh, I work so hard and I'm tired. You don't need your, your potential clients, your past clients or your current client that you actually worked that event on to see how exhausted you are. You want them to see the result. They don't need to see the behind the scenes stuff.

Kevin Dennis (: 17:21

Okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 17:39

Now, do you think people put that out on Instagram? Not so much for their clients, but for the other wedding vendors that they work. You know what I'm saying? It's almost like, I'm busy, look at me, look at me, kind of thing. Not so much as, I don't know. Part of me that thinks they put it out there for the others, wedding professionals, not so much for their clients. So.

Sarah Chianese (: 17:51

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 18:02

Yeah, and it irks me each time I see it. I always say to them, get some rest. I just, you know, I'll reply, you know, they're friends, but please don't promote the self-burnout. If you want to avoid burnout, there are plenty of people who talk about it and who have lived through it, goodness knows, and talked to them about it, but you don't need to promote it. It's not pretty.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:06

Yeah, no. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:23

Yeah. No, it isn't. It isn't pretty. You're right. All right. Yeah, please go. Yeah, go.

Sarah Chianese (: 18:28

There's a few more, if I may. Please don't rip other people off or plagiarize them. It happens all the time. I've seen verbatim websites taken off of mine. Verbatim. Literally copied and pasted. Did I do this, he says no. Because you know what? Bless them and help me just forget them. So because if they're doing that from the get-go

Kevin Dennis (: 18:35

Yeah, I agree.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:41

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 18:55

and literally using my verbiage on their website for their catering company? Go ahead, see how it goes for you. It's no skin off of me, but please don't do that. Please, please people make it your own.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:02

Yeah. No, I agree because there's another company out there that we've custom built chandeliers and some backdrops that are custom to us. We're the only one that has them. You know, people have other ones that look similar, you know, or may look like them, but you know, these ones are very identifiable to us and they're on this gentleman's Instagram.

and saved in his story and I'm just like, and I always like ask him for it because he doesn't have it. You know what I'm saying? So it's a, you know what I'm saying? It's my favorite part. And it, behind the scenes I'm upset, but out front I'm just like, go for it dude. If it's gonna make you, you know, I worked hard to build those things, you know, and you're never gonna build them the way I had them. So go for it. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 19:30

Okay.

Sarah Chianese (: 19:52

Exactly. Now if they were to say something like, wow, Kevin, Dennis created this awesome thing, and I was inspired by it, here's my version, give the credit where the credits do. I mean, I would love for people to start, I put it out there for all to see, please copy how we do our cocktail hours. We do them in a special way. I want other people to do them because there's only one of us and we need more than that, right? So,

Kevin Dennis (: 19:59

and I was inspired by it. Yeah. It's emerging. Yeah. Give the credit where the credit's due. Yeah. I mean, I've been.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:14

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 20:20

I want you to go ahead and please study it. Make it your own. You don't have to like copy everything. And that's just an example of the chandelier. Make it your own and then say, and give credit where credit's due. I got inspiration from somebody and here's what we're doing. Like right on, that's the way to do it. Yes, no, that's please, not at all. And then, and regarding that, that has to do with the word competition. I have a big, big theory on this.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:28

Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:44

Mm-hmm. OK.

Sarah Chianese (: 20:48

No competition is out there other than self-competition. That is definitely, it's something I think that my, I attribute a lot of everything regarding my ethic and integrity to my high school band teacher, Mr. LaRoufa. He was awesome. But he would say things like that, like just you're not in competition with anybody else other than yourself. You know, just do it. And he said that before Nike and Michael Jordan did. But he would say, just do it.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:55

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:08

I'm not saying that you're not in competition with anybody else other than yourself. Just do it. You said that before and I did. Just do it. There's nobody else you can lean for other than yourself.

Sarah Chianese (: 21:17

There's nobody else you're competing for other than yourself. You want to be first French horn? What do you got to do? You got to practice, practice. But I take that throughout life. There is no other competition. Somebody moves in next door, great. That means we have to do better. That's all. Please don't spread yourself too thin. Don't take on 15 weddings at a weekend because

Kevin Dennis (: 21:24

Yeah. So, but I take that to our wife. There is no other competition. There's somebody who moves in next year. Great. That means we have to do better. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 21:42

How is it going to be the penultimate experience for your couple if you're spread thin? So that's another thing.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:51

And that's I think we could do a whole topic on spreading yourself thin right now because I think there's a lot of people spreading themselves thin because it's feast or famine right now, you know, so. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 22:02

Is it though? That's a whole other topic too, because I think it's not. I think it's just going to hit in way shorter amounts of time. Lead time is dropping greatly. The other thing that's just very unpopular that I have a strong stance on is the concept of kickbacks. I'm heartily against them. I find it incredibly unethical.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:11

Oh, I agree. I agree.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:23

So, yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 22:31

Shady, probably illegal in certain states, the way it's done. But most importantly, if there's a kickbox involved. And I know a lot of people do it. It came up at an ICA workshop down in the city, and venues were talking about working with caterers. And I said, how do you folks think about kickbacks? And they're like, oh, yeah, we do it. And I was like, OK, it's still happening.

amongst the professional professionals. I'm very, very against it. The cost has to get passed on to the couple somehow, or it comes out of your pocket. Neither one of those is okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:56

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, that's always a big topic that we can dive into forever about kickbacks. But yeah, no, I agree. All right, so any more not OKs? OK, what about some OKs?

Sarah Chianese (: 23:12

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 23:18

I'm sure there are.

Sarah Chianese (: 23:22

Oh, so many great okays. So firstly, have a mission. Okay, so your mission statements, often people think it's just for not-for-profits, right? But mission statements in your business and even in your personal life. And that's why I said the why thing before. Like why are you, why do you have your business? Do you wanna make people dance? Like is that why you're a DJ? Do you love capturing moments?

Kevin Dennis (: 23:34

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:44

what makes people dance.

Sarah Chianese (: 23:49

Forever, is that why you're a photographer? Do you love to feed people? Do you want to hear them say those yummy sounds while they're eating and saying, holy moly, is that what gives you joy? So your why is extremely important as to why you're doing your business. So start with a mission statement. It will help lead your integrity. If it doesn't fit your mission statement, stop doing it. Right?

Kevin Dennis (: 23:53

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:58

Hehehehehehe

Kevin Dennis (: 24:09

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:16

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 24:18

If you want to just get all grumpy and complain about a client, but your mission statement is I want to make my couple the happiest in the world, but you're sitting there grumbling and grumbling, that's against your mission statement. It'll kind of keep you on track if you follow your mission statement and remind yourself of it constantly and your team. So that's one. Of course, the integrity thing, which is also in the WIPA code of ethics. I love that word is inserted in there. Being extremely transparent.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:27

the world. That's a good solution, I should say that.

Sarah Chianese (: 24:47

Clarity is one of the most beautiful things in the world. Clarity, clarity, communication, very clear steps, whether it's with you, working with another professional, you working with your couples, you waiting for information from a software program that you're trying to instill into, whatever it is, clarity. So I would say that's a very, very important thing. Of course, respect for diversity of any kind. This is America, right?

Kevin Dennis (: 24:51

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:07

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:13

of any kind, this is America. Yeah. Every walk of life.

Sarah Chianese (: 25:15

We have every walk of life here, and it all has to do with love. So I respect other professionals who celebrate love, no matter what. That's part of my mission statement, for sure.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:20

Yeah. I respect other professionals celebrate love. Yeah. No matter what.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:29

Well, you have been in New York and me in California. I feel like it's a melting pot, you know? I just, you know, like, I just did a Persian Chinese wedding, you know, last weekend, and it just, and that's, that's more normal to me than, you know, whatever, you know, Caucasian wedding, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it's, I do more diverse weddings than I do any other wedding, you know? It just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, no. I know what you're saying.

Sarah Chianese (: 25:52

Absolutely, and not to diss the Caucasian weddings. We're all about all weddings, right? But yes. Right, no, I know what you meant. So yes, in fact, 100% of my couples ask for some sort of an ethnic collaboration in their menu. There's always a mix of menus going on. So yes, celebrating diversity on every front.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:07

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 26:15

no matter what it is, and no matter how out of the box you are or how traditional you are. There's nothing wrong with totally traditional weddings, and there's nothing wrong with the freakiest of weddings, like, you know.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:17

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:26

I love it when they steal traditions from another culture or another religion. I think it's fun because they learned it from a friend or a friend did this at their wedding and so they're going to do it and have it at their wedding because, you know, like you said, the underlining is we're celebrating love, you know, and how we get there doesn't matter.

Sarah Chianese (: 26:31

Oh yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 26:42

Yes. It's right. It doesn't matter as long as we get there. Of course, leading by example is definitely an important ethic. And respect. Respect for everyone. Your clients, your fellow wedding professionals, your team. Anyone having to do with the whole process. And then there's a line that I did not coin.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:47

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 27:11

But I love it. And it's sort of a mindset, which I think helps lead the ethical and has your etiquette move forward in a very positive way. And that is to sell the solution, not the product. And I love that line. And my friend who's a fashion designer just reminded me of it the other day. And I was like, you know what? That really is such a beautiful concept.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:11

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:28

Hmm, okay

Sarah Chianese (: 27:41

He said that he heard it from Sewells. I was like, it really sounds like a phrase you could have coined. But in any case, I did not coin that, but I love it so much. Sell the solution, not the product. So when you ask your clients, and people call it discovery calls, client intakes, whatever you want to call it, when you ask your couples, what do you want? What are you looking for? What's going to make you the happiest? And they say x. Then.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:50

Yeah, I know.

Sarah Chianese (: 28:08

That means that you need to find a solution to make that X happen. Not, I wanna upsell, I wanna make more money. That's not, your drive is not to make a ton of money. If you lead by your ethics and your etiquette, then the money will follow.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:16

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:20

Yeah, I agree. It just it really it really it really will. So, all right. So how does the etiquette extend to not only the clients, but to other fellow vendors? So how do we.

Sarah Chianese (: 28:33

Oh, okay. So please understand all of our friends. Yes, you feel like what?

Kevin Dennis (: 28:38

I feel like, I feel like we're gonna have a therapy session here, but go ahead.

Sarah Chianese (: 28:44

Well, I would love for all of the wedding professionals to understand that for the next 15 to 20 years, we have to collaborate more than we've ever done before. Because things are getting so immersive and so intertwined, whether it's, it does start often with the planner. Okay, the planner is like, they're the big bowl and we're all gonna put the ingredients in, right? So.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:55

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:04

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 29:12

very clear communications, tons of respect, meeting deadlines. Deadlines are so important, but again, that has to do with clear communication and clarity and all that. To treat people kindly and respectfully in the process, you don't have to do it, don't be fake. Just be genuine in everything you do. You don't have to talk a certain way, you don't have to dress a certain way. Be yourself, be authentically yourself, but be there 100%.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:32

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 29:41

Not like, ugh, so and so's calling. All right, hi. That's not genuine. And it's also gonna somehow have an effect on what you do. So yes, collaboration, communication, taking the time. If someone needs you to answer a question, taking the time to meet that deadline or that expectation. If it's five minutes or a half an hour, make time for it. That's respect.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:46

Bye!

Kevin Dennis (: 30:08

Yeah, it is respect. Yeah, but vice versa, like people, what about respect the other way, you know, coming back to us, you know, like, there's a lot of times where I feel like a photographer will hijack the timeline and then now all of a sudden, the caterer is trying to deliver that New York steak at the perfect temperature but you know, but you have I mean, if they tell you 730 is go time that's you're prepared at 730 but

If all of a sudden we're going to 745, you can't stop the steak from cooking. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, you know, so there's a respect all around that I think gets lost in translation.

Sarah Chianese (: 30:41

Yes.

Sarah Chianese (: 30:47

all around, and I'm so glad you brought up the timeline. That timeline needs to be shared and input offered for people to be able to put in. Within reason, you don't wanna herd frogs into a wheelbarrow, right? But the planner, the onus is upon the planner to please do that. Now let's say you have a planner that you haven't worked with before, and they may not be necessarily at the professional scale that you're in. You can say to the planner, I would like to take a peek at the, you can ask for the timeline, because sometimes it's just not offered.

Kevin Dennis (: 30:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:16

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 31:17

And so you could say, I'd like to take a peek at it. I just want to make sure everything's on par with reality. But you say it in a nicer way, because some things are just not realistic. And as well as feeding your team of wedding professionals at the event. Now, I will chase down photographers and feed them. I will.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:22

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 31:37

I have experienced DJs in the past who were very aggressive and angry and would come up and say, we want to eat and we have to eat now. It's in my contract. It's like, oh, okay. But that was years ago. I mean, I've worked with people since then and I do have a protocol that people have to follow. It's like, okay, I'd like to know. And this has to do with the couples as well. So the couples and the planners, I let them know upfront, we're feeding everybody and we're feeding them with dignity.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:43

aggressive and angry and you come up and say we want to eat we have oh geez

Kevin Dennis (: 31:51

Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 32:03

Now, if the DJ wants to be fed an hour before the food comes out for everybody else, that's not realistic. We could be like, hey, we got some good snacks in the meanwhile. We'll bring you your hot food when you need it. So the writer in that person's contract doesn't necessarily, has never been translated to me. I can't help you. But yes.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:03

Yeah. Yeah, that's not that's not real. Yeah, no.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:16

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:24

No, yeah. And then the arrogance of someone to go on the day of. If it's going to be an issue, then reach out to you two weeks before or a month before and just say, hey, is this possible? I do something special during dinner. I would like to eat a little bit earlier. And you can be like, no, I can't, but I can maybe provide you a box. There's all kinds of different ways to go about it. But I think it's the prima donna approach of it is not.

It's just not welcome in the industry. There's sister venues in my area that actually feed the vendors when the couple gets fed. And they actually feed us the same meal that's getting fed to everyone else, which is something that a lot of caterers don't do. But

Sarah Chianese (: 33:12

do that.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:17

But around the scuttle bucket, everyone talking, everyone, they're like, oh my god, I love working at XYZ venue because we get fat. It has nothing to do with the venue other than the food. You know what's funny? But people get excited because they know they're going to be taken care of. And they can work without being worried about, I need to bring power bars with me. I need to bring a.

Sarah Chianese (: 33:34

Yes.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:41

You know, there's a venue I work at, I won't name names, but I bring a sandwich with me every time I go. And when it's dinnertime, I go, I just sneak out real quick and go eat in the car and come back because I know the food is not good and I'm not gonna be taken care of, you know? And it's just, I do it all the time. I put on, no, I know.

Sarah Chianese (: 33:56

in the car. But that's why I say eat with dignity. I do put that in my contract that all of the wedding professionals at the event need to eat with dignity. Even if you have one separate table, not in the kitchen tent with tins of slop all thrown in there of leftovers. Sit down, eat. Even if some people could eat a good meal in 10 minutes. I mean, so just put.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:11

No. Slop. Uh, yeah. I've gotten the art of eating fast. It drives my mom, my wife nuts. If we go somewhere, because some, if I've, if I've been working a lot, I'm just like in that mode, I need to eat fast as fast as I can. So anyway.

Sarah Chianese (: 34:24

Yes.

Sarah Chianese (: 34:30

If we're ever on a wedding together, I will bring you a delicious hot plate of food. You will not have to eat it in the car and it will be tasty and healthy.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:36

I will love that and I will be happy about that. So, all right. What is one of the most overlooked things you see in terms of ethics or etiquette with other businesses?

Sarah Chianese (: 34:49

I would definitely say the lack of communication, the sharing of the time. To understand that we are a team putting together a magical forever memory for a couple. That concept doesn't seem to sink in with people and people get very territorial and that prima donna-ish kind of thing happens. I'm the most important professional at this wedding.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:58

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 35:10

that concept is very painful for me to see. And so I'll go over as, you know, like kind of like grandma, auntie, and be loving and nurturing to them and try to warm them up and take that edge off of them. And then I'll ask, you know, hey, you know, what time are you gonna be able to eat? I wanna make sure we have food put aside for you or kept in, you know, kept something. And it'll be like, oh, you're actually being caring. But that's leading by example, right?

Kevin Dennis (: 35:31

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 35:36

Well, yeah, you got to do that. There's so many people, I feel like mean girls would be, I've never seen the movie, but I feel like I need to watch the movie because I quoted a lot. But there's just, there's a little bit of that mean girl attitude in weddings where it's the photographer versus everyone or this one versus that, you know, and you just put a vendor versus vent and they just want to fight all night, you know, and it just, and they forget.

Sarah Chianese (: 35:45

Oh

Sarah Chianese (: 36:04

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:05

At one point I looked at videographer and photographer that were like at each other's throat And I go you know what guys we're here for the couple and you guys need to get your freaking shit together Excuse my language, and let's go you know like I'm tired of the bickering Like I don't have time for the behind-the-scenes bickering. Let's just you know let's work together We're here for team couple and let's go you know and that's where I think they forget

Sarah Chianese (: 36:16

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 36:27

Right.

Well, a 15-minute Zoom call before the event happens, so everybody can at least meet each other, see each other's faces, recognize each other on site if you've not met yet. Those kind of things. It's a 15-minute block of time. And you just say, hey, everybody, we're just going to review. Anyone have any conflicts with the timeline? Like, speak now. We're actually right ahead of time. Forever hold your peace kind of thing. But yes, it's a memory that we're creating together. That's what we've got to remember.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:42

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:55

Yeah, I agree. Well, and then there's venues that I work at that I don't agree with the flow of things that they do, you know what I'm saying? But it's their venue and this is how they like to do things. And if I want to work there, this is how I, you need to do it. And you just have to be okay and not be a, you know, a prima donna. Yeah, I gotta watch the movie. I've never, it's funny, I downloaded once to watch on a plane and I never, I ended up watching something else.

Sarah Chianese (: 37:13

No Pribadattas and no Mean Girls. You've got to watch the film now. But. Ha ha.

Sarah Chianese (: 37:24

But that's the high school clique or the junior high school kind of like that kind of stuff. I've never liked it in real life back then and I still don't like it to this day. That talking behind the back, you know, there's just a general concept of please don't gossip about others and just be nice. Just be a nice person and that kind of thing. It really goes a long way.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:26

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:44

It does. It really does. I mean, there's a lot to be said to be nice and it'll go a long way. All right, so anything you want to wrap us up with when it comes to ethics that we didn't talk about? Or do we touch on a

Sarah Chianese (: 37:57

Goodness gracious. We did touch on a lot. I would say also just real quick about the continuing education for all of us in the industry. Not to the point where it's overwhelming, because there's a lot out of us. Especially, actually during COVID, a lot of people did shut down their actual companies and came out with coaching. And here's this to learn, and you could buy this package and this package. There's a lot of information out there to not get overwhelmed. And

I really want to encourage the concept of mentorship, as well as allowing the team members in your business to branch out, grow, and fly away eventually. Our jobs is to actually teach them the right way of doing things, learn what not to do, and learn what to do, and then set them free. You want to give them that.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:29

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:39

Hell yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:48

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Chianese (: 38:50

the power, I guess the word power, is that the word? You wanna give them the power to be able to go out and take over. I mean, I don't wanna do this until I'm 80. So I would say the continuing ed, the nurturing, the mentorship, the love, and also just take care of yourselves, like really, that whole self care thing is no joke. You saw me last week in Vegas, and I was.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:00

No.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:14

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 39:16

riding a scooter because my back was out, okay? I am usually running around like everywhere, but I was down for the count. Yeah. I was scooting around and doing the Queen's wave as I did it.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:18

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:25

But you were there! Yeah. Good for you. You gotta go. Alright, so thank you so much for being here. There's one question I always ask because I feel like it's different for everyone. What is your favorite part of a wedding?

Sarah Chianese (: 39:43

Oh, the love and the sounds of people eating yummy food. I love it so much. It's literally, we get so happy. Like, it makes our hearts go like, boom, boom. When we start hearing, first we hear, ooh, because they're seeing it.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:49

I've never had that. I've never had the yummy food sounds.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:01

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 40:02

And then we hear, mmm, like all the yummy sounds that come out of people. And it's a universal language. No matter what language they're speaking, they make that sound. Well, so is music. Music is the universal language. But the sound of yumminess, that sound is definitely by far the reason why we do what we do. And then it's love. It's all about love, food, music, family, friends. Like it's a marriage. So it's just, it's a beautiful thing. We're lucky. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:07

It really is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:29

It really is. All right. Well, Sarah, how do we find you in the world, the web and all that stuff? How do we connect with you? And we'll have it in our show notes as well. But what do you like? How do you like to be connected with?

Sarah Chianese (: 40:38

Ah!

Sarah Chianese (: 40:42

I would say my website is good because there's a contact form on there. I do believe in phone calls, and I do believe in Zoom. So you can see people and relate. Manja and enjoy, M-A-N-G-I-A, which means eat in Italian. Manjaandenjoy.com. Nice and simple. Same thing with Instagram, manjaandenjoy. But a lot of people can't spell manja.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:46

Okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:59

I love it.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:05

It's M-A-N-G-I-A, right? It's because it's... Love it. Just call you. All right. All right, Sarah, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. I hope you'll come back and be a guest on Mind Your Wedding Business again, because I really enjoy talking with you. So Sarah, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have fun. All right. All right, so now we're done.

Sarah Chianese (: 41:07

You got it. Yes, indeed. And my phone number. Yes. Just call me. Yeah.

Sarah Chianese (: 41:25

My pleasure. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you so much, too. Have fun.

Sarah Chianese (: 41:34

Yay.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:34

It's stopping, it's do-